use of pro biotics in aquariums

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neilthirumuttam
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use of pro biotics in aquariums

Unread postby neilthirumuttam » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:51 am

"Probiotics" generally includes bacteria, cyanobacteria, micro algae fungi, etc
hMMMM .............
any one have idea regarding the use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums and aquatic plant cultivation ?
just curious to know the algae control in commercial cultivation of aquatic plants,
waiting
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NEIL


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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby SCORPIO » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:44 am

I have read but never used or seen anybody who is using probiotics to consume algae in aquarium. Although several products are available in market. I would also like to know more about these products.
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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby neilthirumuttam » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:00 am

JUST HAPPENED TO READ THIS ARTICLE
INFORMATIVE ONE
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/natural-aquarium-cleaner


this is another one more basic about probiotics in aquaculture
http://mmbr.asm.org/content/64/4/655.full

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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby Romi » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:11 am

@Neil Thirumuttam

I have been interested in probiotic cultures used as health drinks for several years now, and in fact, have distributed probiotic cultures to hobbyist on Aquapetz meetings! Rajiv, Mankotia, and Arjun have all taken them from me. Vishaal Dalal was initially interested, but I am not sure he still is. He helped me find the Kombucha SCOBY again, the last one I personally had died years ago.

I am currently using probiotic culture of Kombucha to transfer beneficial bacteria through vinegar eels to fry. It is one of three types of probiotic culture I maintain.

I do not believe they can be used to kill algae, since bacteria do not inhabit the same niche as algae, so they cannot take the place where algae grow and crowd the algae out. but they can surely grow in places where disease causing pathogenic bacteria grow, and thereby prevent disease.

The field of probiotics for fish aquairums is very fascinating but still in its infancy. This is because it requires an understanding of beneficial bacteria/fungi and other microorganisms in human beings first, before you can understand their usefulness in an aquarium for fish.

Probiotics is one of the many reasons I favour live food over dry food (but I have always used both, never being without Tetrabits or Hikari). It is also the reason I HATE introducing chemicals to aquariums that kill microorganisms blindly. The famous Natural Aquarium expert and scientist Diana Walstad proved that fishes carry germs of most diseases like ich all the time. it is only when the natural equilibrium among naturally occurring microorganisms is disturbed in an aquariums that the germs increase in numbers and cause the disease. One example is Fish tuberculosis (TB).

Of the two articles you have so helpfully shared, I do not approve of the second article that tries to sell a 'sludge' that kills bad bacteria. I do not think it is possible to be so specific as to know exactly what type of bacteria you are introducing that they will counter the exact type of bacteria/algae/cyanobacteria (which are both bacteria and algae) that you want to kill. No. What is possible is to avoid strong chemicals and absurd technological applications like UV lamps for water in small aquariums, and to use food to introduce healthful beneficial bacteria and other organisms in fish food so that they colonise the gut of the fish. These cover the digestive tract so well that there is no space left for pathogenic bacteria to stick and cause disease in their bodies. at the very least, it is more difficult for disease germs to get space where healthful bacteria already live and multiply.

Probiotics is a very wide term, it can cover not only the bacteria in probiotic foods that we might indirectly feed fish with, but also the bacteria that live in a filter and appear naturally in healthy thanks. in that sense, every cycled aquarium has them in small or large numbers. They are already sold in sealed bottles by many companies (including Sera) but their efficacy is debatable, since we need a lot of research to find out for sure if they remain alive after so long in a closed environment. I feel the term should be only used for bacteria in food that we can feed fish, for others to understand better.

My cocopeat tubifex culture is till not ready, it keeps disappointing me. :oops: :oops: :oops: if you like, I can send you a probioitic kombucha culture that I am using successfully for vinegar eels. Vijendra Suryavanshi is also using it in Delhi now. And Monty Chadda will be also given a piece soon :D

My post is already very long, but I haven't covered growing plants vis-à-vis probiotic application. I am sure you have already heard of vermicompost. the compost is very good for plant growth if it is first aged properly. the special worms (many species, most common is eisenia fetida) can be kept at home which convert any organic waste to compost that can be used in the substrate for growing plants, in about 2 months. This compost is full of healthy bacteria that prevent disease in plants or anywhere it is used. the worm species is easily available from any plant nursery that sells raw vermicompost (not in bags) since there are always worms in it. it is also sold in Govt. agencies to farmers. Plants can also be sprayed with 'vermicompost tea' (just google it!) which creates a layer of good bacteria on plants that is believed to prevent harmful pests from attacking leaves. It also prevents nutrient deficiencies.

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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby Arjun Tandon » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:11 pm

Now just as Romi says, Probiotics can be looked through two angles... One supporting Plants and other supporting animals...
Probiotics in animals can help in digesting complex molecules present in food but many of them are specific. These are generally cultured in molasses. The gut of mammals and that of fish are quite different.
Probiotics cultures supporting plants need extensive rich soils to flourish...

Most cultures will be destroyed in the switch from mammals to aquatic life because of the difference in diet. And also from Aerobic high organic soils to Anaerobic Ammonia free water in Aquarium. Many of these depend upon atmospheric nitrogen and substrate for Micorrhizae fungi to grow.

The topic is definitely interesting to look at but taking at the differences of food source and growth conditions of these beneficial bacteria, it seems impractical

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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby neilthirumuttam » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:36 pm

Probiotics are now widely used in aquacuture farms
specially on gold fish raring .in cement tanks
I don't have deep know how.

let me know more about probiotics and it application in aquaculture?
any name of brand of such etc
thanks advanced,
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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby Romi » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:06 pm

@Neil,

No idea. Since you are the goldfish breeder can you find out for us the name of the Probiotic brands being used for Goldfish in the farms of Kerala ?

I think we are talking of two different things: one, feeding the fish with food rich in probiotics which help their digestion if they have some problems, and enhances their immunity; two, adding probiotic culture to the water so that the water quality benefits from it. The second use seems very unlikely to me in current scenario. But do correct me if you know about it.

As Arjun says, the species of bacteria is likely to be very different based on the environment they have to live in. Probiotics is a very broad term. Organic Compost is often mentioned in same breath as probiotics and Yogurt is known to everyone (the most common example) but both are poles apart.

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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby neilthirumuttam » Thu May 29, 2014 6:34 am

HI MATES

put yogurt in BIO FILTER(1tbl spoons in filter)

Lactobacillus sp. may be
suitable as probiotics and / or biocontrol agents
in freshwater ornamental fish culture.
Image

EXPERTS, please share your views and XP hands

waiting

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NEIL
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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby syed.ali » Thu May 29, 2014 3:36 pm

this will be very interesting but will be be usefull on smaller scale, aquarium

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Re: use of pro biotics to control alge in aquariums

Unread postby Kaushik » Thu May 29, 2014 4:38 pm

Interesting topic.. if the beneficial bacteria (say bacillus or Bifidobacterium )groups can be traced then it could be introduced in the aquarium but the question is directly or indirectly through any medium or colloid substances?
I think its a time bomb, in case if any pathogenic bacteria are introduced unintentionally then the loss will be unprecedented.
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