Timing

Forum for discussion on substrate and fertilizers used in aquariums
sumer
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Re: Timing

Unread postby sumer » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:22 pm

saikumar wrote:But does it really matter if we shock the tank, and By this is it shocking plants or fish?

Neither fish nor plants. I was referring to a sudden change in the chemistry of water.
Let's take another example. You put some oil in a pan and then put the pan on stove. It heats up gradually.
Now imagine heating up the pan first and then putting the oil on it. You see what I am trying to say?

So if we need to dose say 10 ml micro solution, instead of dumping the whole 10 ml just in one go, I am wanting to dose 1 ml every hour for 10 hours.
The thing I don't know is the rate at which plants consume these nutrients. Is it more than 1 ml/hour? If it is, i shouldn't do what I am thinking. If it's not that way, my experiment would do just fine.
What do you think?


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Arjun Tandon
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Re: Timing

Unread postby Arjun Tandon » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:19 pm

Its might be really hard to tell how much is consumed every hour because it might depend on the number of plants and types of plants. Also on the size and age of the plants. Your best bet would be to distribute as evenly as you can and this time, during day time and hope that fertilizers are absorbed before they degrade. One easy way to do that is using an IV Drip. I've tried acclimating plants and fish using it but never used it for dosing....

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saikumar
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Re: Timing

Unread postby saikumar » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:54 am

Err don't really get the oil pan relation, sorry : |. You mean adding dropbydrop of oil on hot pan is better? Or put fertz per week in stored water and use during WC? In fact people have been using ei from long by dosing alternate days, so might not really be such stark difference for flora n fauna.


Well by the words '10ml per hour' and 'distribute as evenly' we are talking about a 'linear' graph. What plants need could well be some log graph during sun rise sun set, an inverse parabola during midday, you never know. So- yes lets call it an experiment with only plant growth as judging factor against conventional ways.


Now that we are at it, I have seen one product from German company, it has an RO membrane attached to syringe, just hang that syringe over tank wall and nutrients get released when ever concentration decreases in water. To say- this is by far the closest I have seen to maintain an even conc in water throughout the week, and 1ml per hr doesn't stand a comparison.

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saikumar
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Re: Timing

Unread postby saikumar » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:25 am

This is the one am talking about. Absolutely brilliant execution.
This is what I d rather call best and blind way for beginners and veterans alike.

And also an answer for anyone who generalize fertz "must" be dosed only in "night".

Do check the vid on youtube too.
http://dennerle.com/en/products/aquaris ... on/dosator

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Re: Timing

Unread postby Arjun Tandon » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:19 am

Now I see where we are getting at. Nice concept!

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Re: Timing

Unread postby sumer » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:55 am

I absolutely get that concept but it still leaves some questions unanswered. You cannot control the output of that device. So basically if the membrane was made in such a way that it'll put out enough ferts (ferts that they specially make for this unit) to maintain say .7ppm of iron. What if I want to maintain 2ppm?

That can be a good option for someone having an iwagumi but not for a dutch style tank.
So now back to the basic question: If you want to maintain some level of a nutrient; for example iron; how do you dose it? Do you dump it at once or do you spread the dosing over a long period of time.
The pros and cons that came out from the discussions as of yet are:

Pros of dosing it over a long period of time:
1. No manual work. Auto doser works for you.
2. You don't change the water chemistry violently.
3. Plants have a constant supply of nutrients (**If and only if they absorb nutrients the whole time and not just at sunset or sunrise or mid-day)

Cons
1. Little expensive to start with. Either you DIY it or buy a commercial unit, you will end up spending a good amount of money and time.
2. If plants absorb more nutrients at a specific point of time during the day, this method doesn't help in that regard. (well, even dumping the ferts at once doesn't guarantee this)

I don't have any scientific backing but I would think that plants absorb nutrients at a fairly constant rate during the whole day (or maybe just during the photoperiod).
Any more pros or cons? Chime in.
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saikumar
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Re: Timing

Unread postby saikumar » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:47 am

I don't see any cons than what you already have there. In fact my dosing pumps are on their way :D .
Dumping (by EI) has helped us all because we dose more than plant needs(estimating), so it can always pick up as per need be. So does help.

How do you plan for a(an Indian) power outage? and may be plant trimmed day/week?


For the 2ppm iron, or any customization, you could well use our own stock solution, same equipment. Just some Chemistry n math.

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Re: Timing

Unread postby sushant » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:10 pm

saikumar wrote:I don't see any cons than what you already have there. In fact my dosing pumps are on their way :D .
Dumping (by EI) has helped us all because we dose more than plant needs(estimating), so it can always pick up as per need be. So does help.

How do you plan for a(an Indian) power outage? and may be plant trimmed day/week?


For the 2ppm iron, or any customization, you could well use our own stock solution, same equipment. Just some Chemistry n math.

Since it is impossible to calculate the exact requirement of your tank at any given time, so maintaining adequate level of minerals in water is important as the deficiency of may limit the absorption of others too.
Sushant

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Re: Timing

Unread postby saikumar » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:52 pm

sushant wrote:Since it is impossible to calculate the exact requirement of your tank at any given time, so maintaining adequate level of minerals in water is important as the deficiency of may limit the absorption of others too.

bro, which part of my reply were you challenging? ;)
because I meant the same too to an extent.

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Re: Timing

Unread postby sushant » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:12 pm

saikumar wrote:
sushant wrote:Since it is impossible to calculate the exact requirement of your tank at any given time, so maintaining adequate level of minerals in water is important as the deficiency of may limit the absorption of others too.

bro, which part of my reply were you challenging? ;)
because I meant the same too to an extent.

i was just trying to support your comments 666
Sushant